Chewing the Channel LIVE: In conversation with Natalie Strange

In an industry first, we took our podcast on the road and streamed live from the floor of this year’s Channel Live.

We made sure our Women in Channel x Chewing the Channel takeover didn’t miss out on the excitement. Alongside Will, who was joined by a host of high-profile names throughout the day, Teigan also stepped in to host a session. She was delighted to welcome Natalie Strange, Managing Director of RPS and Co-Chair of the Women in Telecoms community, to the stage.

Natalie shares candid insights on navigating a male-dominated industry, balancing motherhood and leadership, and the importance of building inclusive, supportive spaces for women.

Listen in as Teigan and Natalie discuss:

• Finding your place in an industry you “accidentally” fell into
• Lessons on leadership, authenticity, and resilience
• The impact of supportive workplace environments and shared parental responsibility
• How mentorship and networking empower women to take the next step

Website: www.elevate.uk/wholesale

LinkedIn: Will Goodall

Phone: 0330 058 9530

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Salute Jade. Um we're gonna be chatting through uh her journey in the industry and um what the woman internal community means to her. Um welcome. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. Um so I thought a really good place to start would be to talk around how people kind of accidentally fall into the industry. Yeah, okay. Because I feel like I fell into the industry accidentally, and I feel like maybe you did as well, but it would be good to understand your journey and kind of how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yeah, so um, I mean, firstly, like telecoms isn't sexy, is it? Let's face it. So anybody that tells you that they went into telecoms and was like that was my career path, I'd be questioning it. Um I think for me, I was always very technical when I was little anyway. Um, I did ask my parents at the weekend what I wanted to be when I was little. I wasn't and my mum said I wanted to be a princess until I was about three, and then I wanted to be an astronaut, and then when I got a bit older, I wanted to be a wrestler because I loved watching wrestling when I was little, I was a proper tomboy. So for me growing up, I like tech was just a real thing that I self-learned. So if I couldn't do it, I fixed it. Um I I was in an era where like the the internet just did started, so all of that stuff was like fun for me, like the dial-up stuff. And um, so I'd always I think had an edge of tech over the years, and then yeah, I sort of like you said, I fell into telecom. So I actually did a yeah, I did a degree in film, and I just did it and realised the side of how I just really enjoyed um more of the business side of it. So any business I'd been in, I wanted to know what everybody did and how they did it and how it works. Um, and then then, yeah, an opportunity became up in RPS. So RPS was my first telecoms role. Um and I remember going and um interviewing with Ron at the time. I'm sure he'd tell you I interviewed him, probably not the other way around. Um and we just sat in there and we talked, and it was just there was just a spark that I just not felt for anything else before. And I was just like, this is my place, this is it now, and and that was it. And then so how old were you when you kind of left the film and TV, Hannes? Uh so I so I I hmm I'm trying to think back now. I I've been at RPS for 11 years. Okay. So I I did a lot of film and marketing after I came out of university. So I actually worked in a car dealership for a while, filming videos of cars for a living. So that was my job, yeah, fun job. Um and uh yeah, so it was I did that for a while, but I think, yeah, like I said, I think I realised that I enjoyed far more the elements of the behind the scenes than I did. Um, so it was always about what the business was doing and how the marketing was impacting the numbers, and it was on that sort of stuff that I found really interesting me. And I think if I'd looked back and maybe gone more for a technical route, would that have maybe that would that have come out sooner? Yeah, um, it's like I went to college to do a computing course and I got told by one of the lecturers that it'd be too hard because I was a girl, and I went and did media. And at that point, I think had I been the girl that was bold enough to be like, well, I'm gonna do this anyway, yeah, um, would I have gone then into would I have gone into sort of a computing side of it sooner? It sort of all came full circle for me. So um, but I gained a lot of experience along the way in different industries as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So And do you think now if if if if someone had said that to you, you would have been like, yeah, I'm gonna do it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Whereas back then I mean I um at most of my team will tell you that I can be quite fiery when I want to be. So I'm very calm, I generally am. Um, but I can be fiery if I need to be. I think when you're in charge, you have to have that element of being able to sort of to have that side. Yeah. And I was far more fiery when I was younger than I am now. I have I've learned to tone down that fire massively. So the idea that somebody said it was gonna be hard, and I was like, oh, absolutely not. Um it's a confidence thing at that time. Um because yeah, I'd always been I'd always been the one girl. It I'd always been the one girl that was on the computer course and the one girl that played football. So um, yeah, I was always one of one. So um at that time though, I I've decided to then do sort of the media side of it. And and there was a time where I did really, really enjoy that. I just sort of fell out of love with it.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

So And the opportunity with Ron, like how did that come about? Was it kind of like the job came up and you apply for kids? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Actually, so I was I was very miserable where I was at the time. Um and I knew I wanted a complete set change, and I didn't really know what I wanted it to be. Um, and it was actually one of my husband's friends at the time um that still works in the industry, doesn't work at RVS anymore, that came, uh came to me and said, I've got a perfect job for you. And I was just like, what is it? And he said, Well, I need we need somebody to come in and organise all us lads. And I'm just like, okay. Uh instead, and honestly, like we've done a job description, and it's you, Nat. You need to come and you need to come and apply for this job, and I did. And and yeah, like I said, like I sat down with Ron that first interview, and we just hit it off, considering there was a massive age gap between the two of us. Yeah, um, like I was young enough to be his daughter, and a lot of people thought I was for a long time until he retired. Yeah. Um, so I just I found something that just clicked with me. Um, but it was that. It did, I think in our industry, a lot of it is about like you fall into stuff because it's somebody you knew and all of that side of it, definitely. And that was my introduction, and I just I just fell in love with it. Um, and the idea of not being in it now is really surreal. It's I I I've never thought, oh, I would really like to be in that career or that career, because it's just my life. It's just I can't imagine not doing it kind of so not being there.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah. No, it's it's so and and what did you join RPS? Was it kind of sort of just like support?

SPEAKER_00 6:17

So I it's I joined RPS in operations. Okay. Um, so my my strength generally has always been being organized and getting people to do things at the right time. Just um it's it's what I'm good at. Um, but like I said, everywhere I've been, I've always had a desire to understand what other people do. So I was I was technical. I'm never gonna say I'm that technical because there's a level I can hit and then it goes over my head. Um so everybody's got a skill set, everybody's got but uh so but I always enjoyed learning. So at the start, I'd be going on installs and I'd be programming the phones and the routers, and I love one of the guys taught me how to cap 5k ball, and I did all of that stuff and I loved it. Um I've always I've always really believed the value in understanding a bit of what everybody does. Yeah. Um, because then you can understand their day-to-day, and when, especially in an operations role, when you're asking somebody to do something and they're saying, I can't get it done because of, you can at least relate to it a little bit. Yeah. Or like when you're trying to book things in for somebody for an in store, you know that they've not got the scope to do that that week because you understand how long it takes and what like what they're gonna go through to get there. Yeah. Um, and that sort of led over time then, unintentionally, to me knowing everything about the company. So I did the accounts, I did the marketing, I did the sales, and I did a bit of everything. So it it sort of then unintentionally became then a path that I went on. Yeah. That I'd never gone. Well, when I joined RPS, one day I'm the gene direct. This is what I'm gonna do. Because yeah, it's just it wasn't on it wasn't on the cards.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

So yeah. And so when did you um was it when did you become managing director officially? Uh asking we dates now.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Um so I became the general manager about five years ago, Ron retired. So at that point I became the general manager. Um, I think of maybe over a year and a half, maybe, they asked me to join the boards, so which was really lovely. So yeah, it's gotta be over a year. It was my 10-year anniversary, yeah, and they approached me and asked me if I wanted to join the board and if I wanted to become the MD then because I was I was doing everything anyway. Yeah. Um, and for me, it was uh I had a real issue with it being just like a title change. I've always had a big thing about titles not being important and everybody having value regardless. So I I'm not for a structure where people are treated differently because of a title. I I've always felt that everybody's important in a company, regardless of what they do. Yeah. So the idea of putting a big shiny title on me didn't go down well. Um, and if you ask the team, it really didn't go down well. Um, but I realised there was a lot of value in it as well, and it was a real moment of like, well, I've achieved this over a period of time whilst having kids and and doing all of that on top, where I was like, actually, well, this is really nice. And they never had to ask me to join the board, it was never a given. Um, but it was just an appreciation for everything that I'd done, and I am very I'm really fortunate to have like a board of directors that are very supportive with in anything that I do. They're all male, um, but they uh through every change I've gone through, like having the kids and everything that I've done, they've always had my back, and then I'm I'm I'm in a blessed position to be there because I know a lot of people don't get that either.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, I that's what I was gonna try and kind of move on to. So obviously you're a mum. Yeah. Um how is that? Because your managing director of Go and MSP and your co-chair of, you know, Comms Council, Women and Telecoms group, your mum, you know, it's uh it's a it must be a lot. I mean, I so I my colleague I work with, she's a single mum, and I'm just in admiration for her every day because you know it's it it's hard and yeah, you know, I think it there's a massive, there's a massive um sort of shift, I think, in the way that companies are bringing in, you know, more flexible working. I think that is is helping. But yeah, how how do you desigate all of that?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Um I mean it it it's chaos, I'm not gonna lie. Um I I adore being a mum, yeah, and they drive me insane at the same time. Yeah, it's it's that it's that thing because um I love my kids, but sometimes I don't like them. It's that and it is hard. I've got a seven-year-old and a three-year-old, like it's not easy, and my three-year-old's like a mini version of me, and he's a wild and he's fiery, and he's lovely, but he's intense. So all of that that comes with it is it's a lot to juggle, but I made a decision for me that if I was gonna have kids that I wanted to be present, and I think those sorts of decisions are very they're very like they're very particular to the person, and I'm not a single mum, and I don't know how she does it genuinely, because I'd be pulling my hair out. Yeah, but I knew I always wanted to be present, and I think that I'm fortunate enough to have a support network around me that allows me to do both. Yeah. Um, it's life. I'm not gonna say it's 50-50 parenting by any stretch, because I think my husband wouldn't believe I'd ever say that out loud. But I'm closer than most people are. Like he will do like pickups, he will do dinner, if I'm working late, he will put the kids to bed. Um, he's always pushed for me to come to things like this and said that he will wash the kids. So I have the balance of being able to be in charge of RVS because RVS is like another baby to me, and being able to be present at home. Um, I work four days a week, I have a Friday off. I think it's really important that my three-year-old gets mom. Um, and I I work in the evenings. So I work five days, I'll probably work six some weeks. Well, I work it around that, and um, and I think it's important people understand that you you don't necessarily have to pick. Yeah, you can have both. And the value I want to instill in my kids is mom's bun. She's should you know. Like if I'm not here, I'm not in a pair of heels, I'm in a pair of sketches, a pair of running leggings, and we're up a mountain in muddy. It's like that's mum. So I'm very different outside of work. Yeah, and I I want them to understand the value though of mommy works hard. And you know, mommy and daddy look after you. It it it's it's always been something that I want them to see the value. Like my son William, he'll always go, Are you a good boss mum? And I'm like, I hate the boss words. And he are you a good boss mum? And I'm like, Yeah, I think so. And he's like, because you look after people and you care for people and all of this stuff, and it's all of those qualities that I think that they must see that I want them to grow up knowing that you can be in charge of something and still be kind. Yeah, but still be pretty fierce, too. Like you can still be successful without being cruel to people. Um, and I suppose that balances maybe the way I run RPS differently to other people because I'm always thinking about what are they gonna think of me and what I think of myself. Like long term, success to me isn't just a monetary figure, there's so much more than that to me. But um, they keep me on my toes, a hundred percent keep me on my toes, uh, and two little Welsh boys, and I'm not fully faint-hearted, I have to say, but I love it, I really, really love it.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So, do you do you find that your is your are you would you say you're the same person for Comes Council, for RPS, for being a mum, or do you kind of feel like you put a hat on, your mum, put a hat on your list, but you know, it is it's a harder thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Um, you know, I definitely think that I'm de I'm different outside of work. I feel more relaxed. Yeah. Um a lot of people think that this is me 24-7, and it's not. Um I said I'm the fun mum, I'm the the world one that likes playing and wrestling on the floor and all of that stuff. So I definitely think there's an element of that that the business side doesn't see. Yeah. Um but I don't think I'm different in a sense of like for me, it's it's about it's you've got to be able to be vulnerable in a space. Like, you can't expect to lead people if people don't believe you're authentic. And I'm very authentic. I'm very honest about when I'm nervous, very honest about not wanting to do podcasts. You know, this sort of stuff to me is is really important that people get the real you, but they probably get a different side of me than the kids do, which is natural really. But I'm I just try and be trying be me and hope that that helps in some ways people because I I'm in my position for a reason and I'm there to support other people. And that's not so dissimilar from motherhood. It's like you've been you've got two kids in the world to nurture and grow and to look after them and not give them all the answers, but to try and guide them on the right path. Business is very similar to that, so you still want to nurture and grow the company, but if you're telling everybody what to do all the time, it's not really going anywhere. Yeah, you want the people in your business to grow and you want them to flourish. So there's a lot of comparables there, I think, to being a mum that I probably didn't learn until I became a mum. Like I said, I was really fiery before my kids tamed me. Like I was, because it was like all of a sudden, it was like, oh, okay, well, I've got Lee's now, and I've got to be vulnerable and I've got to say I'm tired and I'm sleep deprived, and it's hard being a mum. Um, but being honest has only made all of that journey better for me. Yeah. And that vulnerability with people, when people understand that you're not perfect, even when they think you are, like, and they go, Oh, well, she's got everything together. I do not have anything together. I don't. It's just nobody does that.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

But we all have a perception that people do. Yeah, especially in it, especially in this industry. Um, yeah. Well, if you had, you know, any advice, I guess, because I just being really open, you know, I would feel quite apprehensive about not saying I want an you know a family anytime soon, but I would feel quite apprehensive about having children because I would feel like my career, you know, potentially could be put on hold. And do I want to be mum or do, you know, and I think it's it sometimes it can be hard when you're just mum. And I think it's it's really nice to see a woman that's so, you know, you're so passionate and you're still doing all your endeavours, but you're a mum as well. Yeah, you know, I I wonder if like if you've got any sort of advice for maybe, yeah, people that are thinking about having a family, how to navigate that in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Um so well, I think we have the challenge anyway, that we know that the women in telecoms are in the minority. I think we know that we're well, it's it's got better, but it's not there.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Um, so I think from that side of it, there's definitely the challenge of maybe a lack of awareness and an understanding level of it as well. Um, I would hate to think somebody did wouldn't have a child because they didn't feel that they were in an environment to be able to do that. Um, but I think that comes then from the employer themselves. Like, change for me has always got to come, whether we like it or not, from the top down. So the people at the top have got to believe in it. So whilst it's very scary and it is a massive commitment to have kids, and it is a big life change, that there should be no reason why an employer shouldn't be supportive of that. Yeah. Like we worked for so many years. Like, what's wrong with having a year off? Like the pause of the career of that time. Yeah. And it is, and it might be that your priorities change, but then things like that happen with life anyway. I was having a conversation earlier about it's a yes, you can have a child. Well, then what happens when you go through a bereavement? Or what happens if you've got to start caring for somebody? Yeah. There are so many things that we have in life that can cause things to falter. Yeah. Like a career path now I don't see as like a linear path anymore. I think it used to be very much so you went here and you hit this milestone and you went here. Yeah. But what's wrong with taking a year out and having a gath and then climbing the ladder a bit later? We're all working until we're like 70 odd anyway. So, and it I think it's that perspective on it that's really important. And that you people, if people want to have children, and I'm all for people not as well. I've got plenty of like people that I know that didn't and are happy. Um, but it's again, it's personal. If you want to have a child, you should be in an environment that supports that. Yeah. And my view would be, which is probably not the right view, is that if you're not, you're not in the right place. Because the right business, the right CEO, the right MD will want your talent, regardless of whether you want to work three days, five days, two days, and whether you want a year off or two months off to have that baby, yeah, because you're more important than that little set change that happens because you've not lost your skills in those nine months. Yeah. You know, you've not you've not lost you, your priorities might have changed, but you're still talented. So why would you get someone in loo when you've got an individual there that's already been part of that company? Yeah. Um, and like the retention side of it that we see, like the 30% of women are leaving in their 30s, and it's looking like well, when do women have kids these days? So, how do we get them back into the environment where they feel that they can still do their jobs and and errant at the same time? And it's not just like exclusive either. That comes, it's not just on our side, it's on the men's side as well. So, what do they want to do? Like it two people make a child. So, do the men want to be at home? There's a lot of conversations that I think that don't happen. Yeah. But in the right environment, there's no reason why you can't have both. And I really feel very strongly, as you can probably tell, that you can have both and you don't have to choose, but you've got to have the right environment and you've got to have the right support, and that comes from your home life and from the business. There is this responsibility as an owner and a uh driver of being a leader of that company that you have to your people. Yeah. Um, and if you look after them, they look after you tenfold. Like, if you think about it long term, you're investing in people to be successful. Like that that's that to me is the best gift that you're you're paying forward. No, yeah. So yeah, don't don't put it off. Don't go into it like. Um, it's it's not a big commitment. Don't quit it off, would be my my advice. And it's very easy for me to say after having two, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

But um, it's a thing though, so my on my uh behalf, he's um he his paternity isn't isn't long, so I think he literally gets four weeks. Yes. Whereas I think, you know, in my company, um, yeah, like I I would probably be able to get like a year off. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's kind of that thing of like, I would almost in that position be expected to take the time off because he only gets gets four weeks, so it's kind of what when would I ever feel ready to kind of take a year out? Or maybe it's that like you said, that priority shift. Um, your priorities change, it becomes a bit more of a thing that you that you really want to do, and and therefore is kind of making those sacrifices. But um is it anything that you think companies, you know, obviously supportive, supportive um. You know, if keep people around you, but is it is there anything that you think companies should be doing in terms of making that transition to women easier and and men that are are are having kids?

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, so I think we have we have a bit of a problem with the unconscious bias of who goes off and has the baby.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

You know, as woman goes off, man goes to work, that sort of thing. Um, and I think until that changes, like there's a lot of stuff now about shared parental leave, which is is is great. Yeah. We don't see a lot of businesses doing it. Yeah. Um, like that parental responsibility should be 50-50. But even in environments where we see that that's been sort of fixed, and it's like, well, you can have six months off as well. A lot of the feedback that I've seen is like, oh, well, I can't have six months off because I can't leave early for a school run because people are gonna look at me and think, well, why am I leaving early? So from the male side, it's quite difficult.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

It's uh that it's definitely more of a problem than we feel more judged at all, like more judged as well. Like, I can imagine a guy, you know, going and saying that they're taking their time off and their wise working, yeah, but would raise their eyebrows.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

But it's uh and it's being comfortable with that as well. Like my husband's always been like, yeah, yeah, she's the breath winner. I don't care, and I'm really proud of her. I love it. But some guys are like, oh, actually no, like I'm that person and I need to do this. And um, but dads want to be with their kids too, and I think this is maybe something that's changed over the past sort of like decade, is that dads want to be at home. They like they want to play with their kids, they want to enjoy school plays, they want to, you know, it's all that stuff that we think mums just wanna do, but dads had kids as well. So um I think there's a lot of things going on that are gonna help, but whether they come into play because people feel that they can't actually take the opportunity of taking them. It's just the natural thing of like kids sick in school, who do they ring? The mockbaz. You know, it's the you it's just the the natural thing is that we'll ring them on first and then the dad's the second number. It's it's like we almost do ourselves over oh yeah, in the pirate all the time. Doing it to ourselves, yeah. But then equally they don't grow it and they don't birth it. So sometimes you wanna like at both times if my husband had said to me, I want to be off and you go back to work, I still wanted that time. Like I'd just grown a baby for nine months, it was mine. Yeah, um, and then you've got the element of how does it work? Like if you breastfeed and if you don't, there's just there's no right way of navigating through it, really. Yeah. Um, but it is, I think that's there's there's a big challenge between how men can support, and even like you said, like four weeks isn't very long. No. Adam had two weeks off work and booked two weeks' holiday for me. Um, and I had a birth injury where I couldn't arrive for six weeks, so I'd had to go for surgery after our second, and I couldn't go anywhere, I couldn't walk or anything. And the idea of him going back to work, and I had a three-year-old at home that I was taking to then school every day was absolutely petrifying. So that's gotta change. It's like um, but then I've got friends now that have had like three months off with their wives, and I see the difference in them because their wives are like, well, we've done it together, the first bit's hot, and then we've got into a bit of a routine, and then they've gone back to work, and everybody's a lot more grounded. Yeah, so there's definitely a lot more being done. Yeah, it's just we still need to keep progressing with it. Yeah, and the more dads they get involved, the better, really. It's all about that equal parenting.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

So, yeah, it's an interesting one for sure. Um, so moving on, women in channel, um, women in telecoms, yeah, it's cancer. How did you get involved with this?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Um, so women in Telecoms was formed about three and a half years ago. Okay. Um, and it wasn't formed by me, it was formed by uh a lady who used to work in Gamma. Uh, she doesn't work in the industry anymore, and she went to Tracy and said, Um, I really think we need a space where women can chat about stuff. I think she was feeling quite uncomfortable approaching a boss about a similar topic about having kids and all of that. And although she said that at the time he was he was great, it was a topic that she felt very vulnerable about. And the group formed, and we had the first event, and there was about 20, 30 people there in London, and it sort of grew from there. And then she left the industry, and uh they were looking for a new chair or co-chair at the time. And a few years ago, I was a um connected north with Tracy from Agrifia, who is now the chair of Comms Council, who was like, I really, I really think you should do this. And I was like, I've just got a baby, I just don't think this is a very good idea. Yeah, um, I can give you a hundred reasons why I don't think this is right. And she said, Well, um, just put your name forward. You've got to be voted for anyway. So I put my name forward. Well, everyone voted with me, didn't they? And then I was like, Oh no. So I I co-chair, which is which is far better than sharing, I have to say. So me and Lauren from Sangoma, we both co-chaired the group. Um, and it sort of just it blew up. I can't tell you. Like, the we always knew that there was a need in the industry for women to have a space to come. Well, I was not expecting the impact that it's had so quickly. So, like, we're over 200 members now, and these are people across multiple businesses. Um, and a lot of these organizations, probably similar to RBS, where they're smaller, they don't have the opportunity to have those conversations. And there's nothing there's nothing saying anybody's wrong with it. It's just there's no when you're one of one in a team, where do you have those conversations? So, yeah, I think it it's sort of it came about as a this is a nice to have, and now is like a must. Um, and we've seen the development of it in the industry uh where it's it's just grown and grown. And we see it now where we're doing mentoring with people, um, and we're talking about it on the panels and stuff. Um, and it's just really nice to see so many women now in the industry like come a bit out of their comfort zone and they're they're cushing for things. So we've seen people that have gone for jobs they wouldn't have gone for, and people that are going on panels where they would have never spoke to. Yeah. Um and it's just it's wonderful to sort of see the progress that's been happening with it. We've just got to keep the momentum going. So between the two of us doing it in our own spare time, and we're both mums, um, it's fitting it all in, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

So and I think I think the networking element is so important to the women sort of internal telecoms community because you know that's it it's kind of protecting your your brand, but also learning, and then also, you know, networking for your future brand and you know, future career. Um, so I've been to quite a few of the events, and it's just been so nice to meet women um that all kind of just want to like help each other, listen to each other, be a shouldered crown, yeah, be someone to come to for advice. And I think that's all we're really trying to do, isn't it? Get more women into the industry and shout about it more.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah, and it it's that safe space, isn't it? Like we've recently opened up a lot of the meetings to men as well, because I do feel that like we can talk a lot about what the issues are and how we want to change them, but we can't fix everything. Um, and a lot of the time I don't think it's through the other side's lack of trying, I think it's lack of understanding. Um, I had a guy come up to me last year at Channel Live and asked me about menopause because his wife was going through it and he wanted to support her, and he was like, What do I do? And I was like, I'm really sorry, but I've not gone through a menopause yet, so I don't really know. Um I don't know whether to be offended or not, but you thought I was that old. Um but but it's it's those sorts of things where it they want to help, but they don't know sometimes the right thing to say, or something that could be offensive. Imagine you go into somebody and saying, I want a baby, and then saying a comment and it'd be wrong. It's like with I think there's this perception sometimes that, oh well, they don't care. But it it's literally like, do they know what to say? So I think there's an important element of it from that side as well of understanding that it's not just one-siders. Um, and just having people just being able to have that voice and come to a space. Like we used to come to events like this, and there'd be no women, and people would be put off coming because they'd always say, Well, there's just all men in a room, and I feel out of place. Now everyone will text. We've got a WhatsApp group and say, Who's going there? Right, okay. And then there's a there's a bit of a well, I'll sit with you there. And then it brings people to events that they wouldn't have gone to before, and I don't know if it's the massive difference today. Yeah, you know, I can't, yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, and it's it's just all of those little things that we can sort of do to bring it on. And uh, what I love about the group is that we are all technically competitors in the space, yes, but we all get together and there's no competitive, so we're not talking about who's doing this, who's not, what we're selling. It's just all about supporting each other, and that's the way it should be. Yeah, no. And to get women in that room and not have an element of like, yeah, like competition, but it is yeah, for sure. It's nice, it's always been a really nice supporting environment.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

And just just on the networking point, so I think traditionally there's a quite a lot of kind of tradition, you know, events in terms of um, you know, golf, rugby, you know, that sort of thing, you know, even uh, you know, strip pulls occasionally. Yeah, I heard about that. It'd be interesting to hear your view on it because you know, I I think for per me personally, I I've always struggled in those scenarios because I'm quite new to the industry. Um, I've maybe always been afraid to say no, even if it maybe in my personal yeah life felt would feel uncomfortable. But if it's you know I'm working for that company and you know it's a customer, and you you want to do things that obviously are gonna bring you at the company business. So it's kind of what what's your what's your view on it? Because yeah, it's it's one of those things that I've kind of feel gradually I realize that women should be empowered to say no, and women should should say no if they feel uncomfortable, and there's nothing wrong with that. And if anything, kind of it's hypocritical to kind of go to those things and then moan about it. Yeah, you're possible. So if you're gonna if you're gonna go. So it's kind of something, you know, a bit on self-reflection myself that I'm kind of you know trying to get better at. But I'd just be interested to hear your view on it.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, I think the striptub thing caught me off guard, I'm not gonna lie. Um, I didn't think that that still happened, but apparently it does. Um I mean, so I've my view is you do you. So it's very much uh, I do me, you do you, but don't expect me to do that. So it's very much uh, everybody's got their own thing, people have got things, they enjoy their hobbies and stuff like that. But I would find it really disrespectable as a as a woman, or and it not even a woman really, as a male, because you don't know how people feel about these things, to be invited for something that would make me uncomfortable. Um, and regardless of the relationship you're trying to build, I just feel that that there's a line that is drawn that maybe isn't drawn so clearly in business sometimes between what's professional and what isn't. Um, and if people are up for it, fine, but you shouldn't be disregarding people that aren't. Yeah. Um, and as the industry has evolved over the years, like I can't golf. I've never been, I've never learned, I'm sorry, I'm alright, but I can't say, you know, I've never learned to golf. But I've always networked, and at the end of it, people buy from people, um, and they do. And having those people that are more diverse in the businesses, is like we all know that having a more diverse business, um, it it businesses thrive better. And you can see like there's loads of studies being done on a business that's more diverse, it actually grows quicker. So you're sort of segregating a base of people then against that. So it it's I'm not saying don't, I mean, I don't want to be invited just on the records to a strip club, just so everybody knows. I'm not saying don't if that's your thing, yeah. But don't invite you that is it don't expect other people to conform to that, yeah. Knowing that that is something that's quite out there that would make them feel uncomfortable. Um, but it's just, you know, those networking events, they've got to be more, they've gotta be more chatty and they've got to be more fun. Like, are you having a conversation on a golf course, or would you like you'd go in later to flight club, argue to me? That's an environment that everybody can enjoy. Yeah. And it's neutral, it's just like you don't have to be good at dots, you're just going for a bit of fun. And there's so many events now that people can do that don't have to involve those sorts of activities. Yeah. But I don't think it's on e just on our side. Like, if I I th I'm not gonna speak on his behalf necessarily, but my husband would be absolutely mortified if I said, Yeah, do you want to go to a strip room? Because so-and-so's invited you to go along, and he'd be like, That it's just not him. Yeah. So it's not just a female thing. There are some men that would find that really uncomfortable that are probably just going along.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

That's what I was gonna say, because yeah, it's definitely not just a female thing, it's it's definitely I know like males that I know that would just not feel comfortable in that kind of environment. I think it's kind of you just need to feel empowered to say how we feel, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

And yeah, and it but again, uh, really easy for me to say, well, no, how dare you? But would somebody like at your level feel comfortable? Like, I'm at a level now where I run RPS the way I want to, and what I value and what I think is important. Yeah, and it's always been the way at RPS for me for years, it's always been about people, it's always been about the customers, and that's I can control that. But if I was in a different part of my career, would I have felt as comfortable saying no? So I completely appreciate the the sort of like you want to gain the business. That's a yeah, it's a tricky role. It is it's a balance, but I it's just being respectful to people, it's not even a business thing, it's just no you rules. And if you don't care that much, I just feel like they're not a business that I would want to deal with. If that's how they treat people that are their suppliers, like to me, a supplier to me is a partner. Like we've we are very, we're very regimented on sort of like we will only work with people that value what we value. Um, and I'd prefer to have a partner that is more expensive, that looks after customers, that's got a similar ethos and value as RPS, because to me that's really important. Yeah, that the customer gets that throughout the journey. If I've got somebody that is coming to me and saying that, I don't want to work with them. Yeah. Because they're not respectful of me. So are they gonna be respectful to my customers? Yeah. It it's it's it portrays a different image now, I get it, yeah. So, and it's hard being the person that then says, I don't want to do that, or I don't want to work with you. Yeah. But the integrity of RPS over the past 20 years and the next 20 years is gonna be based on me having the line to be able to say, I don't believe in that, that's not right. And I I'm not willing to sacrifice the way that we run and the way we do to conform to well, you want to go do that. So, but like I said, it's really difficult because I can say, absolutely not. How dare you?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Yeah. No, it is a hard one. Um, I think we've got to wrap up. I think it's the end, but uh, one more question before we do, before we finish. As ours isn't all on the other podcasts I've done, I'd say it might be it might be about. I didn't pre-warn you on this one either.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Um Do you have a party trick? A party trick? Absolutely not. Oh, I'm I'm not that fun. Um it'd be wrestling. I mean, yeah, it's probably yeah, my party trick's more of what you'd see on the other end of if you came with me outside of work, yeah, definitely. Um, no party tri no party trick. No, I give I give I would give anything a good go. That's generally my go-to. Show is that I mean not in this stress, um, but I give it a go. Yeah, so I'm just very much sure you've gotta try some at once. If you don't like it then, you don't well yeah, you don't like it, but try some at once. So, yeah, I'll I'll probably be told later I've got a party strip that I don't know about. No more. So well, thank you all so much for listening.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

I hope you enjoyed.